High initial potential energy and NVE + langevin + fix temp/rescale

Dear all,

I am simulating a rather small molecule (a polymer, to be precise) that consists of 59 atoms, and I have two questions:

  1. The structure I have is equilibrated and seems to run well over a test simulation (0.01 fs timestep for 10^8 steps), however, due to dihedrals and other very strong bond constraints, the initial potential energy is very high, which equilibrates to a lower potential energy quite happily early in the simulation. Is this a problem? or should I just run the simulation until it equilibrates and strart my production run from the equilibrated potential energy state?

  2. My second issue is temperature control. I am performing NVE+ langevin, in other words Brownian dynamics, which, as has been discussed here before, approximates to some degree NVT due to Langevin thermostat. Now temperature fluctuates a lot (it is supposed to be around 300K, and of course I expect fluctuations (as it is only supposed to be 300K on average)… but in my situation jumps from 250K to 350K are not very realistic. In this case, would it actually make sense to use fix temp/rescale? Or should I switch to NVT?

Thank you again so much for your input!

With best wishes

Anna

Dear all,

I am simulating a rather small molecule (a polymer, to be precise) that
consists of 59 atoms, and I have two questions:

1) The structure I have is equilibrated and seems to run well over a test
simulation (0.01 fs timestep for 10^8 steps), however, due to dihedrals and
other very strong bond constraints, the initial potential energy is very
high, which equilibrates to a lower potential energy quite happily early in
the simulation. Is this a problem? or should I just run the simulation until
it equilibrates and strart my production run from the equilibrated potential
energy state?

you should *always* wait for reaching equilibrium before starting production.
running a short minimization before initializing and equilibrating
your system can speed up the process significantly.

2) My second issue is temperature control. I am performing NVE+ langevin, in
other words Brownian dynamics, which, as has been discussed here before,
approximates to some degree NVT due to Langevin thermostat. Now temperature
fluctuates a lot (it is supposed to be around 300K, and of course I expect
fluctuations (as it is only supposed to be 300K on average).. but in my
situation jumps from 250K to 350K are not very realistic. In this case,
would it actually make sense to use fix temp/rescale? Or should I switch to
NVT?

*never* use temp/rescale for any run, if you want meaningful results.

systems with a small number of atoms fluctuate a lot. this topic has
been discussed many times on this very mailing list. for a single
harmonic oscillator, a 300K system will fluctuate between 0K and 600K.
temperature as you know it from thermodynamics, isn't that well
defined a property on the atomic scale. we compute temperature from
kinetic energy based on the assumption that all degrees of freedom
store an equal amount of kinetic energy, which is only true for
systems in equilibrium and when averaging over a long time.

axel.

Thank you Axel for your constant help! I assume in the case if I need to assess the system at different temperatures (say 300K, 310K, 350K etc… ) what I will need to do is ramp up the temperature to the needed one and then use the final state of that temperature equilibration as the first step of my production run at that temperature.

While I am at it, my other worry is the damping factor in the langevin fix; having read up on it from the mailing list I realise that it cannot be too high or too low. In the past I did not worry about it much but now that I am simulating peptides/proteins, I think I need to be more careful with the choice of the damping factor, which I have set to 1 timestep (0.01 fs)… I have noticed that Steve suggested 100 timesteps to someone who works in polymers. I would like to know what the rationale is behind setting the damp parameter? Again, Steve said that as long as one is looking at times longer that the damp factor, the T should remain around target T, So I guess I should not worry too much about it?

Thank you Axel,

With best wishes

Anna 

Thank you Axel for your constant help! I assume in the case if I need to
assess the system at different temperatures (say 300K, 310K, 350K etc... )
what I will need to do is ramp up the temperature to the needed one and then
use the final state of that temperature equilibration as the first step of
my production run at that temperature.

While I am at it, my other worry is the damping factor in the langevin fix;
having read up on it from the mailing list I realise that it cannot be too
high or too low. In the past I did not worry about it much but now that I am
simulating peptides/proteins, I think I need to be more careful with the
choice of the damping factor, which I have set to 1 timestep (0.01 fs)... I
have noticed that Steve suggested 100 timesteps to someone who works in
polymers. I would like to know what the rationale is behind setting the damp
parameter? Again, Steve said that as long as one is looking at times longer
that the damp factor, the T should remain around target T, So I guess I
should not worry too much about it?

i think you need to spend some time reading up on thermostat
algorithms and how they impact properties computed from MD
simulations.
there is no single "do this, not that" rule in these cases. most of
the "rule of thumb" values work best for dense monoatomic systems with
periodic boundaries.

unless you want to model a specific property, i.e. use fix langevin to
represent interaction with an implied solvent, you usually want the
thermostat to have as little impact on the system as possible without
losing the desired impact, e.g. maintaining a constant temperature.
for most well equilibrated systems, there should be very little need
for this kind of correction. the larger the amount of energy
transferred, the more likely you are hiding a bad choice of simulation
parameters (e.g. too large a time step, bad potential parameters,
interactions that remove energy in an unphysical way)

also, you have to be careful to not mix up different thermostats. with
nose-hoover thermostats, the time constant essentially determines a
characteristic frequency. this typically is chosen to be near, but not
exactly on top of a characteristic mode of your system. that choice
determines how well energy is exchanged and how much the system is
impacted. whereas in fix langevin, the impact is much more drastic and
immediate (you apply friction and then add noise, how much is
determined by the time constant). based on this description, it should
be evident, that nose-hoover chain thermostat can have much less
impact with a shorter time constant, than fix langevin, but also that
nose-hoover may need much longer until a system reaches equilibrium
(if the coupling is very weak) than with langevin, where the exchange
is forced.
LAMMPS supports a whole zoo of thermostats that all have benefits and
drawbacks and are more suitable or less for specific cases.

axel.

Thank you Axel,

As always, Your advise is always very valuable!

With best wishes

Anna

If you are simulating a molecule with 59 atoms and no solvent, either you are dong some kind of vacuum/space/astrobiology simulation, in which case, you should be running NVE (no thermostat), or you are using an implicit solvent potential. If the latter, you should use the same thermostat as were employed by the authors of the implicit solvent potential, because they presumably spent a bit of effort getting things like that right. You will know that you have gotten things right when you are able to reproduce their results.

Aidan,

Thanks, but NVE + langevin should reproduce Brownian dynamics… With implicit solvent as a stochastic term of the langevin equation.